Curse

eleet · Jun 06, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Name: Degen Mesmer
Profession: Me/Mo
Attributes:

16 Illusion
9-11 Inspiration
9-11 Fast Casting

Skills

Conjure Phantasm
Images Of Remorse
Phantom Pain
Ethereal Burden
Ether Feast/Arcane Conundrum
Mantra Of Persistence
Mantra of Recall [E]
Contemplation Of Purity

The key is to keep MoP up at all times and use the three hexes for degen

Credits: Me/Guild member

Terra Xin · Jun 06, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

I Just hope that you understand... especially for a mesmer, is that if you use MoR and CoP together, your getting less energy than you would if you just let the spell ride for the whole 20 seconds. Because you lose out 5 energy casting CoP, which means you'd be better off with Energy Drain. The reason why monks use it is because theyre freaks (and they get a more significant health boost)

I heard a good combo was using MoP with Illusion of Pain, But I havent tried it out yet.

Still, if this is working well in alliance battles, ill just zip my mouth shut^^.

Evilsod · Jun 06, 2006, 09:05 AM // 09:05

You don't need to be a genious to figure that out though

In the FPE some random Mesmers (the ones with Phantom skins) in the Jade Sea were using Illusion of Pain / Mantra of Persistance. Thought i'd find out how much it actually did... 400 ish damage... then healed 200. That is a NASTY degen spell.

Imagined Burden is nice for Alliance Battles, certainly sucks to be the warrior trying to run off. I'd suggest bringing Drain Enchantment though, if they throw Healing Breeze onto themselves you might aswell just stop casting without it. I always find its good to bring Power Drain too, interrupt and energy management in 1, specially as Terra pointed out, using CoP is just losing you even more energy.

Hella Good · Jun 06, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Phantom Pain? People still use that? I think Cume Pain is superior anyway you look at it. For one, you don't need to wait on the Deep Wound, you get it right away. And with skills like CPhantasm, IoRemorse, IoPain, and Recurring Insecurity you barely ever need more degen. Ffs, they all recharge fast enough to be spread around. Btw, when someone says degen Mesmer, I inevitably think of Me/N. Maybe it's the far better compatability than Me/Mo for degen purposes. Illusion/Curses will always be the best degen you can achieve, with a Mesmer anyway.

frickaline · Jun 06, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

I agree with Hella, Accumulated Pain is a very nice new spell that should not get overlooked, particularly in a hex heavy build. Having the power to decide exactly when to give someone a dw is a very powerful tool.

Also, am I the only person that finds it odd to use IoR with mantra of persistance? Since the addition of IoR and accum pain, I find myself moving away from this high cost mantra. It just usually seems like a waste.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 06, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Well considering the mantra will "double" the duration of all illusion hexes for 30 seconds, it is a valid skill. So valid in fact it makes IoR the most powerful damage/energy cost spell in the game (overlooking conditional damage such as SS, Empathy, Backfire, etc. as I really hate to rely on the stupidity of my opponents for damaging them) Its also worth looking into that 10degen for 20 seconds+deepwound+some slow will kill any character(typical non-hp boosting gear if they are wearing a sup rune) if they do not receive heal pretty quickly (within 20 seconds) At one time I had an entire RA build centered around this concept, quit it when I found out there were WAY too many boonprots in RA, and when I lost the faction skills IoR and Illusion of Pain, not that I still don't use it, but it is significantly less effective.

While me/n is a powerful degen, I think pure mesmer degen will overpower the necro in terms of damage/efficiency.

Sab · Jun 06, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Necro degen skills aren't all about damage - they offer effects in addition to causing those little pips. Suffering is great as a cover hex since it's AoE. Faintheartedness is degen + anti-attack. Life Siphon is spammable degen + self heal. Virulence and Rotting Flesh causes degen via conditions.

It's always nice to mix some utility into pure degen, as I'm sure some of these effects can make up for pure damage.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 06, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Which is why I said powerful.

Hella Good · Jun 06, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Suffering and PB are great utility hexes that happen to cause degen. I'd rather cover my hexes with PB than 10 cost skills (IoR is NOT a cover hex) and I really like the AoE of Suffering- esp. since we are talking alliance battles here. I do think that elite nrg management is almost called for with hex heavy builds, if you wanna really spread hexes around that is. For single target builds, I'd take a Soul Barbs + Recurring hex degen spike any day.

ehanks · Jun 06, 2006, 04:18 PM // 16:18

The question of whether to bring Mantra of Persistence or not has always been about how fast you think you'll kill the target. If the target will go down quickly, then there's no need for it. If you're planning on a long fight, than MoP can be worth it as it allows you to hex someone for a LONG time, and spread around the illusion degen to multiple enemies.

In PvE, for instance, I almost never take MoP since a called target will go down long before my conjure phantasm expires. If we're running a hex-heavy HA build, I always take it for the ability to keep multiple targets hexed for a long time, and put some good pressure on the monks.

In Alliance Battles, I tend to avoid any large fights. If I see a huge group of the enemy rushing towards me, I follow Brave, Brave Sir Robin and run away to cap a shrine by myself or with my squad. So I haven't brought MoP ever.

I agree that degen is great in ABs, and illusion is a great skill line thanks to it's degen, anti-warrior spells, and defense (distortion). It is probably my favorite thing to run in ABs. But I think MoP would only be worth it if you were engaged in large holding battles, or if you were using some hit-and-run tactics (rush in, hex up the npc, run away...rinse and repeat). Otherwise I just don't see an opponant lasting much more than 18 seconds (which is the length of a conjure phantasm at attribute level:16).

Just as a counterpoint, here's my illusion/death build I've been using in ABs:

Mes/Nec

Conjure Phantasm
Images of Remorse
Clumsiness
Distortion
Consume Corpse
Verata's Gaze
Mantra of Recall
Ether Feast/Energy Tap/Interrupt

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 06, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Mantra of persistence+slow skills! ^_^;;
Take imaginary burden for instance, or crippling anguish, take conjure phantasm or a cover of your choice and...that warrior will not be hurting anyone for 40seconds. (evolution of my build posted above)
Of course your random pug groups you get in the arenas do not understand the concept of a slowed warrior and stand next to him and let him bash them anyway...what gives?

Edge Martinez · Jun 07, 2006, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Alliance battles are great for mesmers because the objectives are quite unlike PvE or PvP. I think Mesmer is one of the best professions for combining offense and defense, especially when their defense can be so offensive in nature. I use a build that frustrates warriors, assasins and rangers to no end. It's not great against casters, but it does well at finishing hurt/depleted ones.

Domination: Maxed
Inspiration: Maxed (or almost maxed)
Fast Casting: Whatever's left

Spirit Shackles
Mind Wrack
Empathy
Ignorance
Energy Burn
Energy Surge {E}
Shatter Enchantment/Arcane Thievery
Energy Tap/Spirit of Failure

Ignorance is for Healing Signet. Some damage dealers choose a heal spell instead of a signet, so Shatter or Thievery is usually great at negating that. Empathy ends up being the cover hex for Shackles and Ignorance. Surprisingly... very surprisingly actually, Tap, Burn, Surge and Mind Wrack ends up working well against Ele's and Monks. I've been thinking of adding Soothing Images to the mix, but haven't yet. Also, I'm not sure what all I'm missing from Factions, but I haven't taken my mesmer over there yet. As long as you stay at the edge of caster range you can whittle down at leisure.

frickaline · Jun 07, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Well first of all, Mantra of persistance does not doule the length of the degen, its usually in the high 70s for a percentage added on depending on your point spread. And when talking about 10 seconds spells, thats 7 seconds of length added on for an extra ~55 dmg over time. In that time, I could have cast IoR 2 more times which the person was attacking and they'd have taken twice that damage plus I've extended the length of the degen. And for the same cost as using the mantra. Also, phantom pain, well, I dont WANT that to last longer than 10 seconds. I want to get to that 20 second deep wound. I'd prefer a recast there if it means I get that deep wound faster.

See for me, the Mantra of Persistance question has more to do with the fact that I deal more damage with IoR by recasting it than by having the degen 'persist' for a few more seconds. This is mostly because I build with clumsiness and ineptitude so I am not as interested in the degen damage as the up front damage. I take on one target at a time, the build is not a degen spam. I think the mantra has synergy with other degen skills, just not IoR or phantom pain. Illusion of pain? Phantasm? Conjure Nightmare? Absolutely use MoP. IoR? I wouldnt.....

Also, god forbid it takes me longer to kill someone than 10 seconds since I always carry healing disrupts. If it takes 17, I'm probably dead.

BaconSoda · Jun 07, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Has everyone forgotten the old domination+illusion combo echo+phantom pain+ shatter delusions+phantom pain? Shatter delusions might sound silly, but it still packs a suprising punch. when coupled with one or two higher degen skills, echo'd phantom pain can reduce health, healing, and effecency. Personally I use the following skills when called for by friends:

Arcane Echo
Phantom Pain
Migraine/crippling anguish
Conjure Phantasm
Shatter Delusions
Shame
Diversion
Res Signet

Laugh all you want, but i'll stick with this build, I have rarely been one to follow the crowd, and stereotypical builds are something i never do. (I put twists on Everything really, MM, SS, Stance Tank, Healer, but mostly I use my own Custom Builds.)

Mystic Memory · Jun 07, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I always try to use MoP, but i always end up switching back to trusty ol distortion. Its just that, there no point in making hexes last longer if they just get removed (granted they probably wont all get removed, but distortion is just o so good).

Evilsod · Jun 07, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Phantom Pain + Shatter Delusions was really a combo for setting up a target to be spiked. All it took was a 5 second Deep Wound since they should be dead in 1/5th of that. Other than that it was great to initiate a Virulence/Fragilty spike.

It can be a good cover hex though since when its removed the target gets a deep wound, which a prot monk will probably see on the party menu and just cast a condition removal. Although Parasitic Bond beats it in terms of that...

I still stand by Illusion of Pain w/ Mantra of Persistance been a very good way to kill a monk. Theres a good chance they'd see what skill it was, leave it alone since they know its gonna heal them again later. And eventually its degened 150 more than it should've. Then they start to worry... specially if you've got several team mates on degen. Sadly i can't test this theory out

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 07, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickaline

Well first of all, Mantra of persistance does not doule the length of the degen, its usually in the high 70s for a percentage added on depending on your point spread. And when talking about 10 seconds spells, thats 7 seconds of length added on for an extra ~55 dmg over time. In that time, I could have cast IoR 2 more times which the person was attacking and they'd have taken twice that damage plus I've extended the length of the degen. And for the same cost as using the mantra. Also, phantom pain, well, I dont WANT that to last longer than 10 seconds. I want to get to that 20 second deep wound. I'd prefer a recast there if it means I get that deep wound faster.

See for me, the Mantra of Persistance question has more to do with the fact that I deal more damage with IoR by recasting it than by having the degen 'persist' for a few more seconds. This is mostly because I build with clumsiness and ineptitude so I am not as interested in the degen damage as the up front damage. I take on one target at a time, the build is not a degen spam. I think the mantra has synergy with other degen skills, just not IoR or phantom pain. Illusion of pain? Phantasm? Conjure Nightmare? Absolutely use MoP. IoR? I wouldnt.....

Also, god forbid it takes me longer to kill someone than 10 seconds since I always carry healing disrupts. If it takes 17, I'm probably dead.

Actually at rank 15; it is exactly 100% longer. In the build I mentioned we want phantom pain to wear off in exactly 20 seconds for a reason. This reason is that degeneration caps at 10, and at 20 health per second for 20 seconds will add to 400 damage. 400 damage+20% reduction of hp cap will take out the majority of player targets in GW. You also mention that you are not spamming spells; yet you use

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickaline

In that time, I could have cast IoR 2 more times which the person was attacking and they'd have taken twice that damage plus I've extended the length of the degen.

which seems hypocritical. Could be just me though.